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2 Different Path Reports for Stage I

Forums General Melanoma Community 2 Different Path Reports for Stage I

  • Post
    minerva
    Participant
      Hi there,
       
      First, I apologize for my English, I'm not a native speaker. 
       
      In 2012, my husband's birthmark on his upper chest began getting darker, growing and itching. After a couple of months he saw a dermatologist who realized it was melanoma at first sight. According to the path report, it was a 0.93 mm, Clark IV, superficial melanoma with no ulceration, no regression but 2-3 of mitotic rate. We were leaded to see a surgeon for WLE and SLNB. The surgeon told that she found the path report contradictory especially because of the Clark's Level. So she sent the samples – as 3 prepared lamels – to another laboratory which is specialized in melanoma. The second report came as Clark II with no ulceration, no mitosis but with regression. Also there were some other differences like the growth phase. The first report said it was vertical but the second one said it was radial. The surgeon told that the second report was better but also WLE and SLNB was still necessary so they had been done. Thank God, they were all clear. From that time my husband has been visiting an oncologist every six months for physical examination, blood work and x-ray. Also he sees a dermatologist every six months for skin and mole check. 
       
      After the first shock I started researching and realized that mitotic rate is significant for stage 1 patients' prognosis. But as I told above, we have 2 path reports and I intend to believe the second one but how can they be so different from each other? I read that Clark's Level depends on the specialist's interpretation so that's ok, but how can the calculation of mitosis or determination of regression or the growth phase be different? I'm obsessed with these questions, I guess I want to believe the second report certainly although regression is in there. And I know nothing is certain especially in melanoma but still does anyone have a similiar experience like this? 
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        JC
        Participant

          I certainly have had somewhat this experience myself (few years ago).  I obtained 5 different pathology opinions, some said radial growth phase, some said vertical, some didn’t report growth phase.  Those that said vertical did so for different reasons, one due to nest size, one due to dermal mitotic figure.  Some said no mitosis, some said 1, some said less than 1.  Pathology definitely is not cut & dry, black or white – there is judgment, interpretation, etc…they don’t always agree.  They all agreed pretty much on Breslow, but varying opinions on growth phase and mitotic figure (they could not be sure if it was a nevus cell or a melanoma cell with the dermal mitotic figure). 

          JC
          Participant

            I certainly have had somewhat this experience myself (few years ago).  I obtained 5 different pathology opinions, some said radial growth phase, some said vertical, some didn’t report growth phase.  Those that said vertical did so for different reasons, one due to nest size, one due to dermal mitotic figure.  Some said no mitosis, some said 1, some said less than 1.  Pathology definitely is not cut & dry, black or white – there is judgment, interpretation, etc…they don’t always agree.  They all agreed pretty much on Breslow, but varying opinions on growth phase and mitotic figure (they could not be sure if it was a nevus cell or a melanoma cell with the dermal mitotic figure). 

            JC
            Participant

              I certainly have had somewhat this experience myself (few years ago).  I obtained 5 different pathology opinions, some said radial growth phase, some said vertical, some didn’t report growth phase.  Those that said vertical did so for different reasons, one due to nest size, one due to dermal mitotic figure.  Some said no mitosis, some said 1, some said less than 1.  Pathology definitely is not cut & dry, black or white – there is judgment, interpretation, etc…they don’t always agree.  They all agreed pretty much on Breslow, but varying opinions on growth phase and mitotic figure (they could not be sure if it was a nevus cell or a melanoma cell with the dermal mitotic figure). 

              Janner
              Participant

                Were both reports written by dermatopathologists?  A general pathologist can create a report, but it is unlikely to be as accurate as a dermatopathologists report.  One specializes in all tissue pathology, the other specializes in skin pathology only.

                Pathology is an art as much as a science and you are unlikely to ever have two reports match.  Since your husband has already had all the treament needed, there is really no point in going there.  I understand the "need to know", but this isn't something that has an absolute answer. 

                You don't list a breslow for the second report.  Radial growth is most common in in situ, not as common in a deeper lesion.  Clark's Level is very subjective.  Mitosis may be that one path looks at one slide and another path looks at a different slide and sees more/less cell division.  Again, neither may be wrong, but just not looking at the exact same slide. 

                Janner
                Participant

                  Were both reports written by dermatopathologists?  A general pathologist can create a report, but it is unlikely to be as accurate as a dermatopathologists report.  One specializes in all tissue pathology, the other specializes in skin pathology only.

                  Pathology is an art as much as a science and you are unlikely to ever have two reports match.  Since your husband has already had all the treament needed, there is really no point in going there.  I understand the "need to know", but this isn't something that has an absolute answer. 

                  You don't list a breslow for the second report.  Radial growth is most common in in situ, not as common in a deeper lesion.  Clark's Level is very subjective.  Mitosis may be that one path looks at one slide and another path looks at a different slide and sees more/less cell division.  Again, neither may be wrong, but just not looking at the exact same slide. 

                    minerva
                    Participant
                      I don't have any info if they were general pathologists or dermatopathologists. I just remember the surgeon said the lab she worked was specialized in melanoma. The surgeon herself is also speacilized in melanoma surgery.
                       
                      Breslow was 0,81 mm the in second report with a warning that it can't be measured certainly 
                      because the tissue came in glass slides. 
                      minerva
                      Participant
                        I don't have any info if they were general pathologists or dermatopathologists. I just remember the surgeon said the lab she worked was specialized in melanoma. The surgeon herself is also speacilized in melanoma surgery.
                         
                        Breslow was 0,81 mm the in second report with a warning that it can't be measured certainly 
                        because the tissue came in glass slides. 
                        minerva
                        Participant
                          I don't have any info if they were general pathologists or dermatopathologists. I just remember the surgeon said the lab she worked was specialized in melanoma. The surgeon herself is also speacilized in melanoma surgery.
                           
                          Breslow was 0,81 mm the in second report with a warning that it can't be measured certainly 
                          because the tissue came in glass slides. 
                        Janner
                        Participant

                          Were both reports written by dermatopathologists?  A general pathologist can create a report, but it is unlikely to be as accurate as a dermatopathologists report.  One specializes in all tissue pathology, the other specializes in skin pathology only.

                          Pathology is an art as much as a science and you are unlikely to ever have two reports match.  Since your husband has already had all the treament needed, there is really no point in going there.  I understand the "need to know", but this isn't something that has an absolute answer. 

                          You don't list a breslow for the second report.  Radial growth is most common in in situ, not as common in a deeper lesion.  Clark's Level is very subjective.  Mitosis may be that one path looks at one slide and another path looks at a different slide and sees more/less cell division.  Again, neither may be wrong, but just not looking at the exact same slide. 

                          robertgbirch
                          Participant

                            I had a similar experience, my oncologist asked for a second pathology reding as the first gave mitosis reading as low and he wanted a judgment on whether it was 0 or 1. Also he wanted a reading from the lab he regularly used which specializes in Melanoma. The two reports were similar (depth slightly different 0.27 vs 0.30) but the second came down on the side of mitosis zero. There is a great deal of judgment call behind the path report and it seems to me that your first lab (perhaps not used to seeing melanoma everyday?) decided to be more conservative.

                            Ultimately it does not matter which was "right", your husband is doing the right thing by being vigilant with regular follow ups with dermatologist and oncologist (I'm down to an annual check-up but it's been longer for me). Try not to worry about it – I know that is the hard part!

                            robertgbirch
                            Participant

                              I had a similar experience, my oncologist asked for a second pathology reding as the first gave mitosis reading as low and he wanted a judgment on whether it was 0 or 1. Also he wanted a reading from the lab he regularly used which specializes in Melanoma. The two reports were similar (depth slightly different 0.27 vs 0.30) but the second came down on the side of mitosis zero. There is a great deal of judgment call behind the path report and it seems to me that your first lab (perhaps not used to seeing melanoma everyday?) decided to be more conservative.

                              Ultimately it does not matter which was "right", your husband is doing the right thing by being vigilant with regular follow ups with dermatologist and oncologist (I'm down to an annual check-up but it's been longer for me). Try not to worry about it – I know that is the hard part!

                              robertgbirch
                              Participant

                                I had a similar experience, my oncologist asked for a second pathology reding as the first gave mitosis reading as low and he wanted a judgment on whether it was 0 or 1. Also he wanted a reading from the lab he regularly used which specializes in Melanoma. The two reports were similar (depth slightly different 0.27 vs 0.30) but the second came down on the side of mitosis zero. There is a great deal of judgment call behind the path report and it seems to me that your first lab (perhaps not used to seeing melanoma everyday?) decided to be more conservative.

                                Ultimately it does not matter which was "right", your husband is doing the right thing by being vigilant with regular follow ups with dermatologist and oncologist (I'm down to an annual check-up but it's been longer for me). Try not to worry about it – I know that is the hard part!

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