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treatment decision time – Braf neg- treatment naive pembro or ipi/nivo

Forums General Melanoma Community treatment decision time – Braf neg- treatment naive pembro or ipi/nivo

  • Post
    debwray
    Participant

      Hello folks,

      Crossed the stage IV bridge from watchful waiting . No previous treatment other than surgery.

      Liver mets diffuse confirmed by MRI after CT scan.

      Have been given two treatment choices 

      ipi 3mg for four doses every 3 weeks same time as nivo 1mg

      then nivo 3mg every 2 weeks

      OR pembrolizumab 2mg every 3 weeks.

      LDH normal

      Don't know pd1 expression but trying to find out as was in placebo wing of previous trial in that info is held on file- just not sure I can get to it.

      IPI / nivo requires brain MRI and would probably start a week later than keytruda..

      Have background eczema and arthritis that would probably flare with ipi..

      Wrestling with the fact that neither may work but that ipi /nivo has best chance but worst side effects. Know I'm lucky to have the choices but really unsure. Do I flip a coin ?

      Any advice or wise counsel very welcome-  Would be easier if ipi dose was lower-

      Thanks to all

       

    Viewing 14 reply threads
    • Replies
        Patrisa
        Participant

          That's a tough one…

          I personally am an advocate for keytruda,  since it worked so well for my father, but ipi/nivo has a higher response rate…

          I think, given your low tumor burden, you could choose keytruda, if it doesn't work, you can switch to ipi/nivo… i haven't read anything about ipi/nivo followed by keytruda though…

          My father has had no symptoms with keytruda and finds it really easy to do every three weeks… 

          Good luck!

          Patrisa

           

          Patrisa
          Participant

            That's a tough one…

            I personally am an advocate for keytruda,  since it worked so well for my father, but ipi/nivo has a higher response rate…

            I think, given your low tumor burden, you could choose keytruda, if it doesn't work, you can switch to ipi/nivo… i haven't read anything about ipi/nivo followed by keytruda though…

            My father has had no symptoms with keytruda and finds it really easy to do every three weeks… 

            Good luck!

            Patrisa

             

            Patrisa
            Participant

              That's a tough one…

              I personally am an advocate for keytruda,  since it worked so well for my father, but ipi/nivo has a higher response rate…

              I think, given your low tumor burden, you could choose keytruda, if it doesn't work, you can switch to ipi/nivo… i haven't read anything about ipi/nivo followed by keytruda though…

              My father has had no symptoms with keytruda and finds it really easy to do every three weeks… 

              Good luck!

              Patrisa

               

                debwray
                Participant

                  Thanks for taking the time to reply- apparently I would be allowed to trade down from the combo to single agent but not the other way round. Trying to make sense of it all- and struggling but oncologist says close call- think he is right.

                  debwray
                  Participant

                    Thanks for taking the time to reply- apparently I would be allowed to trade down from the combo to single agent but not the other way round. Trying to make sense of it all- and struggling but oncologist says close call- think he is right.

                    debwray
                    Participant

                      Thanks for taking the time to reply- apparently I would be allowed to trade down from the combo to single agent but not the other way round. Trying to make sense of it all- and struggling but oncologist says close call- think he is right.

                      williez
                      Participant

                        Just my experience…

                        I am an advocate for keytruda,  I am in my 14th (tomorrow the next one) doses with very good results and no side effects

                        I went before thru five metastasis: lymph nodes (resection and radiotherapy), brain (resection and radiotherapy in the whole brain, left adrenal (resection) and metabolic traces subcutaneous that  became nodes inside the right thigh close to the bone (radiotheraphy) and subcutaneous in my back (radiotheraphy). These last three in six months.

                        I began with keytruda on December 2015; almost at the same time I had the CTscan for the planning of the radiotherapy  in my back. This scan (with just two doses of keytruda) showed the node in my back was almost half of the size of the previous scan.

                        After months of nodes and continuous treatments (including ipi before with no side effects but poor results); suddenly, with keytruda no more nodes and more clear images.

                        Good luck!

                        Willie

                        williez
                        Participant

                          Just my experience…

                          I am an advocate for keytruda,  I am in my 14th (tomorrow the next one) doses with very good results and no side effects

                          I went before thru five metastasis: lymph nodes (resection and radiotherapy), brain (resection and radiotherapy in the whole brain, left adrenal (resection) and metabolic traces subcutaneous that  became nodes inside the right thigh close to the bone (radiotheraphy) and subcutaneous in my back (radiotheraphy). These last three in six months.

                          I began with keytruda on December 2015; almost at the same time I had the CTscan for the planning of the radiotherapy  in my back. This scan (with just two doses of keytruda) showed the node in my back was almost half of the size of the previous scan.

                          After months of nodes and continuous treatments (including ipi before with no side effects but poor results); suddenly, with keytruda no more nodes and more clear images.

                          Good luck!

                          Willie

                          williez
                          Participant

                            Just my experience…

                            I am an advocate for keytruda,  I am in my 14th (tomorrow the next one) doses with very good results and no side effects

                            I went before thru five metastasis: lymph nodes (resection and radiotherapy), brain (resection and radiotherapy in the whole brain, left adrenal (resection) and metabolic traces subcutaneous that  became nodes inside the right thigh close to the bone (radiotheraphy) and subcutaneous in my back (radiotheraphy). These last three in six months.

                            I began with keytruda on December 2015; almost at the same time I had the CTscan for the planning of the radiotherapy  in my back. This scan (with just two doses of keytruda) showed the node in my back was almost half of the size of the previous scan.

                            After months of nodes and continuous treatments (including ipi before with no side effects but poor results); suddenly, with keytruda no more nodes and more clear images.

                            Good luck!

                            Willie

                          Hukill
                          Participant

                            I am on the ipi/nivo treatment. I do have the skin rash but it doesn't bother me except a spot or 2 will itch every now and then. I am through the first 4 doses of the combo and get my second dose of just opdivo this friday. I had my 14 week scan last friday and was able to pull the report from the VA yesterday. The report is a little confusing and I will see my dr friday but it looks like 5 of the 7 tumors in my lungs are gone or they used the term "micro-millimeter" and the other 2 are both under 2.5 mm in size. I have been very pleased so for with how my body has reacted to these drugs.

                            Hukill
                            Participant

                              I am on the ipi/nivo treatment. I do have the skin rash but it doesn't bother me except a spot or 2 will itch every now and then. I am through the first 4 doses of the combo and get my second dose of just opdivo this friday. I had my 14 week scan last friday and was able to pull the report from the VA yesterday. The report is a little confusing and I will see my dr friday but it looks like 5 of the 7 tumors in my lungs are gone or they used the term "micro-millimeter" and the other 2 are both under 2.5 mm in size. I have been very pleased so for with how my body has reacted to these drugs.

                              Hukill
                              Participant

                                I am on the ipi/nivo treatment. I do have the skin rash but it doesn't bother me except a spot or 2 will itch every now and then. I am through the first 4 doses of the combo and get my second dose of just opdivo this friday. I had my 14 week scan last friday and was able to pull the report from the VA yesterday. The report is a little confusing and I will see my dr friday but it looks like 5 of the 7 tumors in my lungs are gone or they used the term "micro-millimeter" and the other 2 are both under 2.5 mm in size. I have been very pleased so for with how my body has reacted to these drugs.

                                  debwray
                                  Participant

                                    Thank you too for the reply and info. Your results sound really promising. Liver seems to be difficult. but delighted  to hear side effects not so bad for you… gives encouragement.. Still tossing up which direction to go and trying to pin down any info that might be the clincher…..Good luck !

                                    debwray
                                    Participant

                                      Thank you too for the reply and info. Your results sound really promising. Liver seems to be difficult. but delighted  to hear side effects not so bad for you… gives encouragement.. Still tossing up which direction to go and trying to pin down any info that might be the clincher…..Good luck !

                                      debwray
                                      Participant

                                        Thank you too for the reply and info. Your results sound really promising. Liver seems to be difficult. but delighted  to hear side effects not so bad for you… gives encouragement.. Still tossing up which direction to go and trying to pin down any info that might be the clincher…..Good luck !

                                      Polymath
                                      Participant

                                        Hello Anon,

                                        First thing that comes to mind is to be absolutely sure the spots on your liver are indeed, tumors, and not cysts which are very, very common and often mis-interpreted on radiology reports.  If there's any doubt, a PET scan could prove it, or more watchful waiting till next scan.  If there is no doubt, then from what I understand, the side-effect profile of the combo (you described the standard of care in this treatment) is actually lower than Yervoy (ipi) alone, which seems to cause the most problems with adverse reactions.  And, the combo has a much higher response rate as well, so if you want to whack the mel with a big stick while its still small then the combo is for you.  BTW, side-effects differ drastically for people.  I have done it all, and am currently a year in the combo regime, with very few side-effects.  Best in the battle.

                                        Gary

                                          debwray
                                          Participant

                                            Thanks Gary,

                                            Just discovered that I need a brain MRI for combo with no brain mets- now stressing over unusual 4 day headache about 14 days ago. No doubt re liver mets- first CT then fancy contrast enhanced MRI which showed more disease than initial CT 14 days later. Hadn't realised side effects for combo lower than ipi alone BTW. Have started with sweats and think they relate toliver probs and bloods point a finger that direction too. Another sleepless night coming up I think.

                                            All the best and long may you continue withgood results.

                                            Polymath
                                            Participant

                                              Sweats and sleepless nights sound like stress.  Try not to let it get the best of you. Brain MRI's in the tube are not fun.  Take the anti-anxiety drug they offer, or try my coping mechanism which is to keep your eyes closed the entire time, and think about the reason you are there.  Life, love of friends & family, career, all the things you want to live for.  Think happy thoughts and it will be over before you know it.

                                              Gary

                                              Polymath
                                              Participant

                                                Sweats and sleepless nights sound like stress.  Try not to let it get the best of you. Brain MRI's in the tube are not fun.  Take the anti-anxiety drug they offer, or try my coping mechanism which is to keep your eyes closed the entire time, and think about the reason you are there.  Life, love of friends & family, career, all the things you want to live for.  Think happy thoughts and it will be over before you know it.

                                                Gary

                                                debwray
                                                Participant

                                                  Super duper headache was in hospital after surgery and on loads of drugs. Just a bit spooked at thge moment- normal service to be resumed shortly… we hope….its just been ct  wait mri wait treatment options and scan results and now they want another then another wait before treatment starts..so frustrating…

                                                  Thanks again

                                                  debwray
                                                  Participant

                                                    Super duper headache was in hospital after surgery and on loads of drugs. Just a bit spooked at thge moment- normal service to be resumed shortly… we hope….its just been ct  wait mri wait treatment options and scan results and now they want another then another wait before treatment starts..so frustrating…

                                                    Thanks again

                                                    debwray
                                                    Participant

                                                      Super duper headache was in hospital after surgery and on loads of drugs. Just a bit spooked at thge moment- normal service to be resumed shortly… we hope….its just been ct  wait mri wait treatment options and scan results and now they want another then another wait before treatment starts..so frustrating…

                                                      Thanks again

                                                      Polymath
                                                      Participant

                                                        Sweats and sleepless nights sound like stress.  Try not to let it get the best of you. Brain MRI's in the tube are not fun.  Take the anti-anxiety drug they offer, or try my coping mechanism which is to keep your eyes closed the entire time, and think about the reason you are there.  Life, love of friends & family, career, all the things you want to live for.  Think happy thoughts and it will be over before you know it.

                                                        Gary

                                                        debwray
                                                        Participant

                                                          Thanks Gary,

                                                          Just discovered that I need a brain MRI for combo with no brain mets- now stressing over unusual 4 day headache about 14 days ago. No doubt re liver mets- first CT then fancy contrast enhanced MRI which showed more disease than initial CT 14 days later. Hadn't realised side effects for combo lower than ipi alone BTW. Have started with sweats and think they relate toliver probs and bloods point a finger that direction too. Another sleepless night coming up I think.

                                                          All the best and long may you continue withgood results.

                                                          debwray
                                                          Participant

                                                            Thanks Gary,

                                                            Just discovered that I need a brain MRI for combo with no brain mets- now stressing over unusual 4 day headache about 14 days ago. No doubt re liver mets- first CT then fancy contrast enhanced MRI which showed more disease than initial CT 14 days later. Hadn't realised side effects for combo lower than ipi alone BTW. Have started with sweats and think they relate toliver probs and bloods point a finger that direction too. Another sleepless night coming up I think.

                                                            All the best and long may you continue withgood results.

                                                          Polymath
                                                          Participant

                                                            Hello Anon,

                                                            First thing that comes to mind is to be absolutely sure the spots on your liver are indeed, tumors, and not cysts which are very, very common and often mis-interpreted on radiology reports.  If there's any doubt, a PET scan could prove it, or more watchful waiting till next scan.  If there is no doubt, then from what I understand, the side-effect profile of the combo (you described the standard of care in this treatment) is actually lower than Yervoy (ipi) alone, which seems to cause the most problems with adverse reactions.  And, the combo has a much higher response rate as well, so if you want to whack the mel with a big stick while its still small then the combo is for you.  BTW, side-effects differ drastically for people.  I have done it all, and am currently a year in the combo regime, with very few side-effects.  Best in the battle.

                                                            Gary

                                                            Polymath
                                                            Participant

                                                              Hello Anon,

                                                              First thing that comes to mind is to be absolutely sure the spots on your liver are indeed, tumors, and not cysts which are very, very common and often mis-interpreted on radiology reports.  If there's any doubt, a PET scan could prove it, or more watchful waiting till next scan.  If there is no doubt, then from what I understand, the side-effect profile of the combo (you described the standard of care in this treatment) is actually lower than Yervoy (ipi) alone, which seems to cause the most problems with adverse reactions.  And, the combo has a much higher response rate as well, so if you want to whack the mel with a big stick while its still small then the combo is for you.  BTW, side-effects differ drastically for people.  I have done it all, and am currently a year in the combo regime, with very few side-effects.  Best in the battle.

                                                              Gary

                                                              ed williams
                                                              Participant

                                                                Hi Anon, I would want the brain scan either way to make sure that the brain is clear. The pd-1 issue isn't a big deal since both Pd-1 + and – both respond to the Pd-1 monotherapy or the combination!!!Best Wishes!!!Ed 

                                                                  debwray
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Thanks Ed- You guys are brilliant with so many insights . Thanks again..

                                                                    debwray
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      Thanks Ed- You guys are brilliant with so many insights . Thanks again..

                                                                      debwray
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Thanks Ed- You guys are brilliant with so many insights . Thanks again..

                                                                      ed williams
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Hi Anon, I would want the brain scan either way to make sure that the brain is clear. The pd-1 issue isn't a big deal since both Pd-1 + and – both respond to the Pd-1 monotherapy or the combination!!!Best Wishes!!!Ed 

                                                                        ed williams
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          Hi Anon, I would want the brain scan either way to make sure that the brain is clear. The pd-1 issue isn't a big deal since both Pd-1 + and – both respond to the Pd-1 monotherapy or the combination!!!Best Wishes!!!Ed 

                                                                          Bubbles
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            Choosing a treatment path is personal and can be confusing. I agree you needed a brain MRI no matter what. And both the anti-PD1 products (nivo/Opdivo or pembro/Keytruda) have proven to be effective in the brain, esp when given rapidly after SRS to brain mets (should a patient have them). Alone, anti-PD1 yields a 40% response rate. Ipi alone (I know you are not thinking of this, but…) provides about a 15% response rate. It does come with more immune related side effects than anti-PD1 and is the bad boy in that regard when combined with nivo. Probably stuff you already know. Here is a discussion two melanoma experts had about melanoma and choosing treatment that you might find helpful even though it is a bit older and I realize the BRAF info is not pertinent to your situation:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2015/09/pick-your-poison-weber-and-agarwala.html

                                                                            I wish you well. Celeste

                                                                            Bubbles
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Choosing a treatment path is personal and can be confusing. I agree you needed a brain MRI no matter what. And both the anti-PD1 products (nivo/Opdivo or pembro/Keytruda) have proven to be effective in the brain, esp when given rapidly after SRS to brain mets (should a patient have them). Alone, anti-PD1 yields a 40% response rate. Ipi alone (I know you are not thinking of this, but…) provides about a 15% response rate. It does come with more immune related side effects than anti-PD1 and is the bad boy in that regard when combined with nivo. Probably stuff you already know. Here is a discussion two melanoma experts had about melanoma and choosing treatment that you might find helpful even though it is a bit older and I realize the BRAF info is not pertinent to your situation:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2015/09/pick-your-poison-weber-and-agarwala.html

                                                                              I wish you well. Celeste

                                                                                debwray
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Thanks Celeste.

                                                                                  Have provisionally opted for the big guns as I can trade down – but am still mulling it all over in my head. Will listen to the clip as these guys know so much.

                                                                                  Still feeling nauseous but could be antibiotics/ shock and emotional upset or liver issues or a bit of all three.

                                                                                  I  really don't know. Anyway thank you for the vlink andfor taking the time to answer so many queries. You are a star.

                                                                                  debwray
                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                    Thanks Celeste.

                                                                                    Have provisionally opted for the big guns as I can trade down – but am still mulling it all over in my head. Will listen to the clip as these guys know so much.

                                                                                    Still feeling nauseous but could be antibiotics/ shock and emotional upset or liver issues or a bit of all three.

                                                                                    I  really don't know. Anyway thank you for the vlink andfor taking the time to answer so many queries. You are a star.

                                                                                    debwray
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Thanks Celeste.

                                                                                      Have provisionally opted for the big guns as I can trade down – but am still mulling it all over in my head. Will listen to the clip as these guys know so much.

                                                                                      Still feeling nauseous but could be antibiotics/ shock and emotional upset or liver issues or a bit of all three.

                                                                                      I  really don't know. Anyway thank you for the vlink andfor taking the time to answer so many queries. You are a star.

                                                                                      Bubbles
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        You are very kind…but…   Here's what I think is some super cool info!!!  Even if you have to stop the ipi/nivo combo…for whatever reason…..the OS for those who had to stop treatment was very similar to those who continued therapy at 18 months!!!  Here's the report:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2016/05/asco-2016-nivo-plus-ipi-checkmate-069.html

                                                                                        I wish you well.  c

                                                                                        Bubbles
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          You are very kind…but…   Here's what I think is some super cool info!!!  Even if you have to stop the ipi/nivo combo…for whatever reason…..the OS for those who had to stop treatment was very similar to those who continued therapy at 18 months!!!  Here's the report:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2016/05/asco-2016-nivo-plus-ipi-checkmate-069.html

                                                                                          I wish you well.  c

                                                                                          Bubbles
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            You are very kind…but…   Here's what I think is some super cool info!!!  Even if you have to stop the ipi/nivo combo…for whatever reason…..the OS for those who had to stop treatment was very similar to those who continued therapy at 18 months!!!  Here's the report:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2016/05/asco-2016-nivo-plus-ipi-checkmate-069.html

                                                                                            I wish you well.  c

                                                                                          Bubbles
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            Choosing a treatment path is personal and can be confusing. I agree you needed a brain MRI no matter what. And both the anti-PD1 products (nivo/Opdivo or pembro/Keytruda) have proven to be effective in the brain, esp when given rapidly after SRS to brain mets (should a patient have them). Alone, anti-PD1 yields a 40% response rate. Ipi alone (I know you are not thinking of this, but…) provides about a 15% response rate. It does come with more immune related side effects than anti-PD1 and is the bad boy in that regard when combined with nivo. Probably stuff you already know. Here is a discussion two melanoma experts had about melanoma and choosing treatment that you might find helpful even though it is a bit older and I realize the BRAF info is not pertinent to your situation:  http://chaoticallypreciselifeloveandmelanoma.blogspot.com/2015/09/pick-your-poison-weber-and-agarwala.html

                                                                                            I wish you well. Celeste

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